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Post by elysian on Jul 28, 2008 18:30:21 GMT 11
In light of my weekend in Lithgow and ripping out my rear tow hook  , what options are available to attach a decent/proper/indistructable recovery point on a MU ? I had a quick look through the board, but nothing really stood out , except to not use the front/rear tow hooks for recoveries, or atleast change the bolts to 12mm/ 1/2 inch high tensile ones. In my case, the captive nuts in the rear hook hanger/bracket have had the thread stripped out of them completely.. Am looking into getting a tow bar made, but this would be a few months off yet as I would need to get one custom made (unless there is a Rodeo/Jackaroo/Frontera/something else.. that fits). On the front, is there other places to attach a recovery point apart from a bull bar? ( I just have the stanless steel sport bar/brush guard.. ) I'm slowing upgrading my MU .. I know it's pretty capable in the mud and that , just want to get some decent gear on the MU to get it out when it gets stuck .. |
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daisy
Isuzu Junior
Posts: 90
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Post by daisy on Jul 28, 2008 20:54:49 GMT 11
Yip had the same problem a while back when my rear hook ripped off the mount on the chassis  the guy snatching me out of a mud hole was very lucky ( i felt real bad) in saying that it was a very hard pull and we had broken a strap pulling a truck out before me we should have used the winch which got me out in the end so i went a bit over board and did this: bought this bracket made very strong by an engineer and fitted a rated hook  then i drilled out the threads in the back cross member all the way though to a 16mm hole and welded in crush tubes with a 12mm hole and with a 4mm plate going half the length behind the cross member i bolted the bracket though the cross member with rated bolts   yes a little over the top but shes not coming off but after seeing first hand the damage that a flying hook can do or could do i think it Worth it sorry about size of photos not sure how to make them smaller  |
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drift
Isuzu Baby
Posts: 31
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Post by drift on Jul 29, 2008 2:38:22 GMT 11
I did something similar at the rear, I since added stronger and longer straight through bolts and tidied it up a little.  On the front I used a bumper mounting point on the chassis eack side, works well.   |
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Post by geeves on Jul 29, 2008 7:29:21 GMT 11
daisy If thats still the factory rear cross member you might want to have a look how its attached esspecialy after the way the old hook failed. Mr Isuzu didnt attach it as well as he ought to of doneand I have heard of a few cracking when those holes are used for the pajero style tow bar. You might need to brace it a bit more. James in chch did substantial mods to his before he was happy.
Snatching is one of the most dangerous things we do. If anyone has to ask is this strong enough the answer almost always will be no.
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Post by bozza72 on Jul 29, 2008 11:48:23 GMT 11
As we are yet again discusing recovery points can i get your opinion's on mine.... Front hook  rear hook  Thanks |
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Post by holden on Jul 29, 2008 12:29:55 GMT 11
I dont like the look of the front hook. |
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Post by holden on Jul 29, 2008 12:48:51 GMT 11
heres mine: Front mounted on the left and right side on a TJM Winch Bumper. front:  front:  front:  Rear mounted on the right side on a standed tow bar. rear:  rear:  rear:  kane |
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Post by Pissy on Jul 29, 2008 14:12:10 GMT 11
I dont like the look of the front hook. Yeah I'm going with holden on that one, that front hook just looks like potential trouble. I would definitely get it restalled and aligned towards the front like they should be, maybe Greeves could give us his thoughts? Greeves what do you think on the D shackles going through the lowest bull bar mount like on dirfts truck? Obivously I would worry about possible tearing of the mount hole if no other additional strengthing/plate steel backing, but I have no idea as to the strenghts of that bullbar mount. I like the look and idea of though, would prefer the have the D shackle facing the other way to limit the danger should anything go wrong? hehe ;D Cheers |
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Post by geeves on Jul 29, 2008 16:47:32 GMT 11
As I said if you have to ask its not good enough. Remember Im no engineer but have seen the results in the flesh and pictures too often to take risks. IF IN DOUBT ASK THE SAFETY OFFICER OF YOUR LOCAL 4WD CLUB
Bold for a reason If your hook comes off its you that gets to do first aid. A google search for tow hook fail should show you what to expect
I wont be snatching on Bozzas hook anytime soon but might winch on it if I had to. Rear hooks might be ok but only if there is a plate inside the chassis and the hook is bolted through both.
Snatching on shackles has always been shunned on in Aus and NZ but is common overseas. Im of the mind that a proper hook should bend and release the strap which is dangerous enough on its own but if something breaks on a shackle the chances are that 1kg of steel is still attached. In saying that though the most used shackle has a swl of 4.6 ton which means a breaking load of 25 ton which is enough. Drifts shackle though appears to be attached to a bracket that is held to the chassis by 1 10mm bolt Out hooks are attached by 2 12mm bolts and even these break sometimes
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Post by bozza72 on Jul 29, 2008 17:48:50 GMT 11
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daisy
Isuzu Junior
Posts: 90
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Post by daisy on Jul 29, 2008 18:29:22 GMT 11
daisy If thats still the factory rear cross member you might want to have a look how its attached esspecialy after the way the old hook failed. Mr Isuzu didnt attach it as well as he ought to of doneand I have heard of a few cracking when those holes are used for the pajero style tow bar. You might need to brace it a bit more. James in chch did substantial mods to his before he was happy. Snatching is one of the most dangerous things we do. If anyone has to ask is this strong enough the answer almost always will be no. I wasnt asking if it was strong enough i know it is! if you read the thread you will see that ive drilled out the bolts and added crush tubes and added a plate at the back so the rear cross member is about 7mm thick back and front so that hook bracket aint going to pull though  and the rear cross member is attached to the rails strong enough. the reason my hook came off was that the bracket it was bolted to was fixed to the bottom of the rail with two stitch welds which tore off the rail which is only @ 2mm thick and if i was going to mount a hook to these rails i would use crush tubes and plate both sides. thanks any way geeves and we should meet soon as im hoping to join the wccvc if your still a member and i mounted that hook as club rules state  |
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Post by geeves on Jul 29, 2008 20:49:32 GMT 11
As far as I know theres only one club in NZ with tougher tow hook rules than those although a lot of clubs demand upward facing hooks which is an absolute pain on all modern 4wds. A lot of overseas clubs have also copied them. If you have a good keeper on the hook and use it correctly there is no need for the hook to face up.
Daisy please accept apologies for any misunderstanding None of the extra engineering is visible so it did need to be pointed out that the bolts in the rear crossmember are not up to the job when standard. A person is selling an identical attachment for the rear towhook on trademe but the info with it suggests these bolts will do. If you are at the next ccvc meeting say hello. My wife and I man the door and organize supper.
On a side note yes I did go to school in London It was Deans Lane school in Mill Hill NW7 but I left when I was 10
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drift
Isuzu Baby
Posts: 31
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Post by drift on Aug 1, 2008 18:36:56 GMT 11
Hi Daisy, my front shackle is fixed through the bumper chassis mount as I wasnt happy with the recovery points on the bullbar so I ground them off so they couldnt be used accidently. A winch bumper would be mounted to the same mounts so on that I figured it would be solid and seems to work well, they are held on by the shackles original post  |
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daisy
Isuzu Junior
Posts: 90
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Post by daisy on Aug 1, 2008 20:13:53 GMT 11
Hi Daisy, my front shackle is fixed through the bumper chassis mount as I wasnt happy with the recovery points on the bullbar so I ground them off so they couldnt be used accidently. A winch bumper would be mounted to the same mounts so on that I figured it would be solid and seems to work well, they are held on by the shackles original post Hi there drift like geeves said in one of the above posts if thats a rated shackle it aint going to break and i wouldnt think it would rip out, i have seen hooks mounted there so it may be ok but as a panelbeater i see alot of 4wd bend that mount in accidents because the bumper bracket pushes that mount back/down so maybe watch that mount and maybe add some more strength? and fitting a couple of 12mm (8.8) or stronger bolts though the bumper bracket to mount. but i really wouldnt want to say yes or no to that mount check with a engineer they shouldn't charge for advice |
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drift
Isuzu Baby
Posts: 31
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Post by drift on Aug 2, 2008 0:40:50 GMT 11
To be truthful I was thinking of welding a plate over it and patten the bumper holes in for strength a while ago, yours and Geeves comments have got me thinking again ( and that usually hurts ;D ) about bracing the mounts. Cheers guys |
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Post by geeves on Aug 2, 2008 13:34:49 GMT 11
Remember everyone. Its nearly impossible to see if something is ok from just a few photos and it would be madness to say something is ok from a photo which gives little more than a casual glance. Therefore we always say consult the safety officer of a local club. Most of them dont bite.
Ive seen the end results of a hook failure Daisy has seen it happen. Neither of us want to see it again
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Post by bozza72 on Aug 7, 2008 10:22:45 GMT 11
Hey Drift , i liked your idea with the front shackles and ive done the same with mine,
But do you leave the shackles in place all the time ??
If so how do you connect a tow line or do you undo the shackle each time you connect ?? Its just mine are a bit fiddly to undo and do up.... i think if im buried in sand it might be hard to undo the shackles.....
Your thoughts would be great thanks
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drift
Isuzu Baby
Posts: 31
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Post by drift on Aug 11, 2008 4:43:26 GMT 11
Hi Bozza, sorry for the late reply Ive been on my Holidays. I leave them on all the time as they are on so tight it would be a pain to remove them in the field, when off road I just use a bridle or tree strop about 3 metres, which I attach to the shackles using a couple more rated shackles then wrap the strop around the bullbar/ bushbars and tie on with some cord, even saves bending down  Then if recovery is needed just attach the tow rope shackle to the bridle/strop in the middle, its really handy in water or deep mud as you dont have to mess around under the bumper looking for the recovery points, just untie the strop from the bullbar and attach recovery rope. I hope this is clear and helps |
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drift
Isuzu Baby
Posts: 31
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Post by drift on Oct 18, 2008 7:43:09 GMT 11
I thought I would share my new uprated rear shackles which admittedly are an improvement from the hook I had on the tow bar, but the hook isnt totally redundant.   Nicely and securely welded in place. The hook is now moved up onto the door where I can safely hang a bridle strop that will be attached to the shackles, this saves digging through mud to find the recovery points, the hook is NOT for recovery . The added thing is I can now use my rear window wiper as I ground the wiper holder off the old wheel carrier and added it to the hook contraption so the wiper easily clears the door/window gap. As an added bonus I can also add my CB aerial to the mount and save it getting killed by trees on the roof.  Just have to be careful no lemon thinks its a recovery point ;D |
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, what options are available to attach a decent/proper/indistructable recovery point on a MU ? 
the guy snatching me out of a mud hole was very lucky ( i felt real bad) in saying that it was a very hard pull and we had broken a strap pulling a truck out before me we should have used the winch which got me out in the end so i went a bit over board and did this: 
and the rear cross member is attached to the rails strong enough. the reason my hook came off was that the bracket it was bolted to was fixed to the bottom of the rail with two stitch welds which tore off the rail which is only @ 2mm thick and if i was going to mount a hook to these rails i would use crush tubes and plate both sides.
