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Post by draganlada on Jan 21, 2006 2:03:19 GMT 11
Hi guys. I've been reading on this forum about isuzu's "excelent" rear wheels articulation (good for off roading) but I've to admit I'm not happy with my mu's rear wheel down travel ( it is getting cross axled on allmost anything ).If I drive my MU on to standard rampes I've bought at Supercheap for mechanical purposes and bring it in crossaxle position so that one front wheel and oposite rear wheel are on the rampes it couses second front wheel being firmely on the ground but oposite rear wheel is hanging allmost 100 mm in the air off the ground.If I do the same thing to my Lada Niva, all 4 wheels are firmely on the rampes/ground. I've both cars tested off road on same opsticles (rock climbing up hill) and Mu didn't come not even close to the lada.My lada is standard with open difs and it can be driven as 4x4 or awd and even in awd mod it performed better than Mu in 4x4.My Mu has reseted and added leaf springs at the back what gave me 50 mm lift comparing to old saged leafs,and I've tweacked front torsion bars to make the car level.Maybe that mod coused bad wheels articulation of my Mu ?I know if I fitt longer rear shocks it will improove downtravel but don't know how much longer shocks do I need. Can anyone sugest what to do to improove downtravel coz it is very embarasing when little lada or my mate's frontera (with back LSD ) outperform my Mu off road  |
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Post by geeves on Jan 21, 2006 8:41:13 GMT 11
Ladas are much beter than a lot of people belive Ive heard stories of one at the Foxton sund dunes going up and down hills that the local 4wd club were having to winch there cruisers and similar up.
Bigest problem will be the extra leaf as its not the down travel you need although it helps its the up travel on the other side that does most of the work. For a 4wd you realy need springs as soft as possible. When I did my Bighorn I fitted new Lovels springs I fitted the hd type as mines a lwb and the result was phenominal. The old springs were 3 leaves + overload the new ones were 5 much thinner springs + overload.These gave me a 30 mm lift or 65mm from what it had sagged to. These also improved the ride no end and even with light loads in the back which hardly move the sprngs sitting it will hit the overriders. Someone else posted a pic of std Lovel springs for his Mu which had 4 springs. These would be the correct ones for the smaller Mu
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Post by James W on Jan 21, 2006 15:33:42 GMT 11
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Post by mulover on Jan 21, 2006 18:00:50 GMT 11
if you have lifted your front end a lot then the "a" arms may not be getting up to thetop bump stops. simply thingy a wheel up on something and have a look. You can try trimmimg your bump stops by about a quarter to give you a bit more travel and do a ball joint flip to improve the wheel alignment. removing the sway bar will make a big difference. I have a steel winch bar and winch on the front with rancho 9000's and find the handling great even with stuffed rear shocks!!, just don't put longer shocks in the front or thet will bottom out!!
To find out how much longer shocks you can go in the back, disconnect your shocks and twist her up and then have a mesure. remember to get them an inch or two shorter than your measurement or else they will bottm out in rough ground!!
I have just fitted 50mm lift efs springs which are for a rodeo, 5+ 1 set up with full front and rear military wrap. I thought i would have to remove leafs but they compress well and should be even better once i change my shocks around.
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HiMuZuLux
Isuzu Junior
IFS: A great reason to own a 9" angle grinder :)
Posts: 125
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Post by HiMuZuLux on Jan 21, 2006 20:48:14 GMT 11
The MaxiTrac springs I sell are $340/pr if you are interested in replacing them. I would suggest as Geeves said that the reset and add-a-leaf will probably be causing your problems by making the packs too stiff.
I also have long travel shocks, which is about as much as you can do for the back end without engineering changes which will require certification. They are approx 40-50mm longer in overall travel than standard shocks.
Also, either make swaybar disconnects or remove the sway bar altogether - although make sure your insurance company knows about this and writes it in the policy that they don't mind, or in an accident you might have them telling you they are not going to pay out as it was modified.
You can also flip the balljoints, shave the bumpstops, etc... heaps of work in the front that will make them better... just have a browse around the suspension section.
regards
Steve
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Post by geeves on Jan 22, 2006 7:08:44 GMT 11
Ball joint flip is good. Its questionable for wof if you read the regs but Ive never heard of anyone being failed for it. It also corrects wheel alignment. Shaveing bump stops A lot of people do this and get away with it but I wouldnt recomend esspecialy with a ball joint flip. It alows too much angle on the cv joints and they break
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Post by mooman on Jan 22, 2006 22:49:37 GMT 11
[quoteI also have long travel shocks, which is about as much as you can do for the back end without engineering changes which will require certification. They are approx 40-50mm longer in overall travel than standard shocks.
][/quote]
Does this give you any xtra height? & What have you got that will raise the front of a Mu 50mm thats not winding up the torsion bar?
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Post by geeves on Jan 23, 2006 10:02:08 GMT 11
winding up the torsion bar is the correct way to adjust hight. Its only a spring and all your doing is adjusting the oposite end of it. Some people will tell you that winding the torsion bar changes the spring rate but this is wrong.If you adjust the Mu by 50mm tho you will have problems with wheel alignment and loss of down travel. These are best adressed by removeing the top ball joint and remounting it under the A arm. This is a ball joint flip and on Mus has no effect in itself on hight although some other makes are different. Bear in mind that any lift does increase cv angles effectively weakening them. 50mm doesnt give too many probs in this regard but expect to break an occasional cv esspecialy if your hard on your car
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Post by draganlada on Jan 23, 2006 13:59:34 GMT 11
At the rear end I gained 50 mm of lift comparing to the old SAGGED springs, Front end I had to adjust only 20-30 mm to level the car up.
I think I'll leave my suspension as it is coz it allready cost me lots of many ( I could have buy 2 good ladas for that many ) and I'm driving it 95% on the road.For off-roading I got my trusty 95 model EFI lada ,it never failled me and during 7 years in my possesion it did 115 000 km (90 % OFF ROAD driving ) it cost me les for repaires than for the MU in 1 and 1/2 year since I bought it.
On the paved road MU is much more comfortable ( specialy with wife and two kids ) than a Lada .
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HiMuZuLux
Isuzu Junior
IFS: A great reason to own a 9" angle grinder :)
Posts: 125
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Post by HiMuZuLux on Jan 25, 2006 9:50:34 GMT 11
I also have long travel shocks, which is about as much as you can do for the back end without engineering changes which will require certification. They are approx 40-50mm longer in overall travel than standard shocks. Does this give you any xtra height? & What have you got that will raise the front of a Mu 50mm thats not winding up the torsion bar? The shocks give no change to the height of the truck at all - they just allow the springs to droop further which is, in essence, more articulation. The springs are technically "50mm above factory standard height" although this varies as the same spring listing is used throughout the Isuzu range so a long wheelbase truck may sit slightly lower than a shorty due to more weight in the truck itself. Overall they do lift trucks around 50-60mm over where they were before fitting - some up to around 75mm depending on how sagged the old ones were. Remember also that new springs sag in the first month or so, so which they might be 75mm over on installation, this will settle back by 15-20mm over time. And the front is, as was mentioned, adjusted via the torsion bars. I have a listing for uprated torsion bars but I have never fitted a set, as most people prefer the softer front end to a harder one, and the spring rate is not that bad in these trucks anyway. Oh,m and as for changing the height of the front of these trucks without tweaking the torsion bars - this is the only other way I know how to do it ;D:  regards Steve |
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Post by mudgrip4 on Jan 29, 2006 22:08:01 GMT 11
Re Isuzu rear axle articulation - an interesting comparison this weekend. Was out on a trip yesterday and climbing a heavily trenched bank with massive holes in either wheeltrack. Seesaw land. Had a guy watch my swb bighorn doing this crazy climb and he reported the rear axle was operating on a huge angle, both wheels biting hard with the tightened lsd. I then watched a V6 mitsi swb with a locker try it - couldn't get any where near as far and showed much less movement on rear axle. 10 club trucks on trip and isuzu easily better. Disappointed in mitsi- just didn't seem to do the tougher stuff even with his locker - suspect his limited articulation in rear is the problem. Did like his ability to push a button and lift the body 3 inches however. Most impressive.
However, had on this trip a guy with a 1990 lwb bighorn 4jbit (with exactly the same rear diff as mine) who also spoke of limited articulation as does draganlada above. We found no evidence of a rear swaybar, and while limited shock travel could be a cause, there was general agreement this occasional problem is due to vehicle having been resprung with overly stiff leaves. (Or an extra leaf) They can be fitted to alleviate sag, or to lift vehicle, or for towing etc, but could easily prevent full articulation if too stiff and only show up as a real problem once you actually take your isuzu offroad - which not many suspension shop 'experts' will do.
Respringing doesn't have to be a problem and is quite often recommended for lift purpose. Many old hands frown on this bigtime, but some say it works well for a time. I've a suspicion leaf type and tensioning is something you have to get experienced advice on, and get exactly right if you want lift, while keeping your max articulation.
Rear axle articulation is not usually a problem for the isuzu - certainly a strength for mine and some others I've seen. I think you will find your respringing setup is the cause of your problem.
Mike
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Post by draganlada on Jan 29, 2006 23:52:55 GMT 11
Thanks Mike
Now I'm certain rear spring resetting coused my bad rear wheels articulation
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Post by mudgrip4 on Jan 30, 2006 10:34:42 GMT 11
Just a thought for anyone looking at this lack of rear axle issue - one simple test could identify lack of shock travel if it is a cause for poor rear axle articulation.
What if we were to put a jack under the left side of rear axle - as far left as poss, say under the plate the springs sit on - and jack up until the opposite right wheel just starts to leave ground. (You might need a very tall jack or a few bits of 8"x2"). Then measure drop of right wheel from bottom of mudguard. Then drop truck back down, undo lower shock mounting bolt on right side and slide shock off so it is hanging loose. Then rejack truck on left side as before till right wheel starts to float again, and measure again to see if any improvement. If significant extra drop for right wheel, then the shocks are too short and causing, or adding to the problem
Kind of stating the obvious but would identify if shocks the problem. Remember to tighten that lower shock nut fully - I had a shock slide off while offroad last year, telescope downwards and buckle. Ouch. Monroe Adventure shocks handle full rear articulation well, incl with lift.
Mike
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