engine oil in the bell housing

[geeves]

Noticed some oil spots under my wagon today which is most unusual so had a look and didnt like what I found. Engine oil coming out of the bell housing where the clutch fork goes in. Pulled the rubber boot off and found everything visable inside there also covered in oil. How much will the rear main seal cost to replace or is there a less expensive place for the oil to be comming from. Is it worth trying one of those engine stop leak gunks.Engine is a 4jb1 with only 175000 k on it

[MattMU]

Buggar mate, is it definately nice and black and engine oil?? Weird that it is coming form the selector fork first and not out through the little drain hole in the bottom of the bellhousing.

Also if its the rear main, then usually it will just run down behind the flywheel and not touch the clutch and pressure plate, ie not be visible form the outside. Maybe, just maybe it is the rear and the drain at the bottom is blocked and you are now pooling, the flywheel hits the pool and spreads it everywhere!!

The only other place it the gearbox, but if its very black....its the rear main.

I replaced mine that last time I had the engine out, origional seal for a 2.8 Rodeo and it was two piece about $70 from JackarooWorld.

Its a buggar to fit without some sort of depth installer, I presume Holden has these. Someone else on the forum replaced their rear main but was supplied a one pice seal that runs on the crankshaft.
I had to knock on the lip seal onto the crankshaft and then knock in the seal into the block, the differnce is the preaload.
I just measured the thickness of the seal complete (10mm), then the lip went in 14mm and the other seal left 4mm at the end, hence the two would end up 10mm again.
Worked and is not leaking after about 20000km and if it starts to leak I can knock it in a mm more and up the preload a tad, but too much and it will just burn the seal out straight away.

Goodluck with it Geeves, pain having to rip the engine or gearbox out, dont need to do the clutch do you? At least you would feel better having to do all that labour!!

Matt.

[geeves]

Drain hole? I had a good look and scrape around the bell housing No drain hole was found I thought about drilling a small hole but decided against it as I dont know where it is safe to drill. Clutch is good at the moment but its original at 175k so its had a good life and its only a matter of time till the oil gets it.
I think Ill try some stop leak at the next chang which is almost due as I dont have the facilities to handle a gearbox that size so will have to pay the experts

[James W]

There is no drain hole, and if there is it is abviously a bad idea in mud/water.
I drilled and tapped a hole for a bolt in the bottom of my bell housing to give me the option to drain.

I can take a pic for you to indicate a safe place to drill. But it easier when the gearbox is out. I've done it to both my gearboxes.

"Someone else on the forum replaced their rear main but was supplied a one pice seal that runs on the crankshaft. "

... Thats what is supposed to be? right?
I have had two seals just like this... one piece.

geeves, is your breather system OK? this compounds the problem somewhat. My rear seal leak virtually disapeared when I fixed the breather.

Sounds like you have a gearbox out and flywheel off project soon. I have been quoated $600 for this, only $50 for the seal, the rest labour. So i did it myself... once for the seal and another time for the clutch, and as of yesterday it lookes like the gearbox front seal has gone so it's on the cards again for me.
I have done gearbox changes in my garage, on ramps and blocks, it aint to bad if you get it high enough (and secure).

[geeves]

Thanks for the advise. If you could send a pick of the drain hole and plug it would be good as if I can drain it then I can put off the bigger job. At present its only a matter of time till the clutch gets oiled with predicable results. I belive my crankcase is breathing ok as there are no fumes or presure when the oil filler cap is removed even after hard engine use (3500+ 5min or more)
How long to remove a gearbox and how heavy are they?

[MattMU]

Geeves the drain hole isnt for the bellhousing its for the rear main, so the oil wont pool into the bellhousing.
Look from the back of the sump between the ally and the 5mm steel spacing plate, its between then not the bell housing. Oil that leaks out the rear main, hits the spacer plate and travels down a little zigzag path between the block and this plate.

Yes I think all can see there isnt a drain bung in the bottom of the bell housing and I agree it wouldnt hurt to drill one and bung it.

If you have that much oil in your bellhousing, I would be surprised if you dont have any on the clutch. The oil drain is supposed to stop that but if you can see it...its obviously in there now!!

The origional seal IS a two piece and the origional replacement you get with ISUZU packaging etc is TWO piece. If you get anything else its aftermarket, not that there is a prob with that, if works running on the crank..then great! Go for it!

The gearbox is surprisingly light, for a heavy box that is. I got mine in and out on a garage floor with only one floor jack supporting it. Was a good balancing act though. I did have to lift it onto the jack once it was under the car and it wasnt too much trouble, or you can lift the car higher, but then the jack might not lift high enough!!

Goodluck anyway!

Matt.

[James W]

"The origional seal IS a two piece and the origional replacement you get with ISUZU packaging etc is TWO piece. If you get anything else its aftermarket"

Hmmm, odd I've seen 3 of these seals all of them one piece. The last one was from holden, can't remember if it has Isuzu stickers on it or not.

geeves, the box unlike some cars IS NOT a human lift. As matt sugested use a trolly jack. It lets you easyly move it for and aft etc. Also I founf it handy to screw a couple blocks of wood together to make crude bracket to try and avoid the box rolling of the jack. Mounting the crossmember it first also helps with support (the one between the chassis rails and onto the gearbox). I found the gearbox had a tendency to not stay level and roll to one side... the weight of transfercase? I can't remember, but it was the bigest battle I do remember.

[geeves]

thanks Ill check tomorrow. Theres bound to be some oil on the clutch theres too much sprayed around inside the bell housing for there not to be but theres no symptoms of it yet.ie no judder or slip.

[Harry]

When I rebuilt my motor I ordered my seals from Supercheap.Crankshaft rear oil seal was $20 odd.It would probably pay to do the clutch at the same time,unless you get to enjoy pulling the motor or g/box out.In fact ,if you can make it to 200k,you could pull the motor and do the cam belt as well,much easier with the motor out.
Hope this helps [ and doesn't confuse too much].
regards,Harry.

[geeves]

Cam belt isnt an issue as it was done at 172k but the clutch could be and probably good maint to do at the same time anyway.Would it be wise to change just the clutch plate of do the pressure plate as well.It never slips or judders(yet)

[Harry]

It's been quite a few years since I replaced a pressure plate.If the thrust bearing wear mark on the diaphragm isn't too deep I wouldn't replace it .But in saying that I should point out that I wouldn't have to pay someone to pull it to bits again to replace a stuffed pressure plate.
regards,Harry.

[MattMU]

Geeves, I think we all know that dealers(GM, Ford etc) can purchase seals etc after market if they feel like it, its all about returns for their massively marked up dollars. The reason I am sure the origional is two piece, because that is what I removed and that is what I was supplied as a replacement in ISUZU sealed packaging. I dont hink there is anything wrong with either, apart from the slighly harder to install two piece, but hen again it acts like its own speedy sleeve.
The seal is supplied with its own sealing edge and you can adjust the preload on the sealing face.

I agree with James, the box definately wants to spin, towards the trans case side (?). Any time taken to ensure the box is supported securely and level will save planty of time and effort under the truck.

As for the clutch well, its all about dollars and effort. Do you want to risk putting a unmachined pressureplate or flywheel back into the veh and risk having it slip a little while down the track. Or do it the best you can the first time. I have been through 4 or 5 clutches, not from skimping but doing the best I can to get it spot on. These vehs have rather small dia clutches and there isnt much room for leaway if it isnt set up the best it could be. Depending on you finances I would definately purchase a complete clutch kit (pressure, clutch plate and throwout) and get the flywheel machined. I guess your costs are comparative as to the time it will take to remove it again later and then purchase all the parts a second time if its not done right!

My clutch is now custom, but I have used Daikin, PBR (ABS?)and a hybrid. Only the Daikin failed me (undertermined by manufacturer) the others worked well or the failure was determined and was acceptable. I know Francesco has just replaced his in Brisbane with an off the shelf kit, so it might pay to MM him and find out how his is going!

Anyway Goodluck

Matt.

[Garth]

Hey Alan. I did my clutch on my bighorn the same as yours last year. Gearbox isn't too hard to manage on a trolley jack, but having another person around to help support it could be handy. also a clutch alignment tool is required to get the clutch aligned properly so you can get the gearbox back in. Took me pretty much a whole day to do the job. but could be done quicker. as for the seal it may be easier to take the engine out and do it that way.

[Dave M]

Hi Geeves, you may have it sorted by now, but I had the same thing with my Bighorn. Turned out it was the gasket behind the front gearbox cover had oozed a section out, and the oil running down through old clutch lining muck in the bellhousing made it look like engine oil. Made a new gasket & it was sweet. Replaced the siezed spigot bearing and since the springs were noisy in the clutch cover, replaced that too!

[geeves]

engine stop leak seems to have stoped the prob for now If it lasts anouther couple of years then Ill be able to trade it in on a newer wizard maybe

[blumu76]

Just as a reminder regarding the stop leak- quite often can compound problems as it is designed to seal minor gaps- may not discriminate between PCV/breathers/etc and rear main. Just to add my two bobs worth- I have just done my clutch and suspected a rear main as well- picked up a PBR clutch kit and rear main seal and rocker cover gasket from repco for $191.00 in Melbourne. However when I pulled the box out I found the oil to be leaking below the rear main seal housing where the sump meets. I think a blocked PCV may have contributed to the problem however I used a little bit of Molly bond over the maiting surfaces just to be sure.

[geeves]

I had a mechanic do the clutch and seal for me (too lazy) so now problem solved It did look like it was still leacking for a while but drilled a small hole into the bell housing and nothing came out so sealed this with goo Obviously the mechanic wasnt as thougher at cleaning as I would of been but I dont realy mind not paying 55 an hour for simple cleaning. Now just got to worry about the diff pinion seal thats spraying oil all over the nice hot exhaust