the perfect rifle..

[mudgrip4]

This is a continuation of the discussion on firearms used by isuzu men round the planet - previously in isuzumate's thread " emergency spares for a trip". Seems to be a topic for the baby-boomer (literally) grandads in our midst!! - those who grew up in earlier times when hunting was about all you had to do when living on remote farms, and you grew up with a rifle in your hands..

Have not come across a 9.3 but should have good punch with such a wide slug. Ballistics? In NZ we mostly had .303s in earlier times, and considered buying one in last few months but problem is almost all are ex-army from 1914 on and it's hard to get a good barrel - one that will still shoot accurately.

The 308 is a 'fatter' bullet Boet and not as flat trajectory as the 270 130 grain, but in NZ we find the 308 180gr to be an exceptionally good all round pig and deer rifle for bush and mountain conditions - excellent stopping power with bigger animals. It's a toss up between them though, and a good bet either way.

I envy your prices in SA if not the circumstances - we do pay steeply in NZ for guns. Am a fan for classic style firearms and considered a new lever action .22. Winchester 94/22 now unavailable since they went bust two years ago ( I think a few are made under licence here and there) and looked at a little American model Henry - $300 in USA but about $700 here. See www.henryrepeating.com, model H001. Tried one in shop recently - beautiful action and very good reviews. Also looked at 22 magnum and the new lightweight high velocity varmint rifle - 17HMR. Big jump in expense though - 3x cost of .22 ammo - and I'm advised rimfires are not reloaded here.

Pity you chaps are so far afield - there would be some fascinating discussions around the campfire (while preparing for spotlighting..) on isuzu 4x4 trips.

Mike

[isuzumate]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for putting us right on the thread - it was going to destroy my spares thread completely. I need to get back to that and just close it off with the final list.

Yes, you guys might pay more for rifles in NZ but believe me, they are cheap at the price for living in such a perfect place in the world. My sister lives in Auckland and I have cousins in Wellington. We did the trouble to get our papers done at the time and was granted a returning residence visa but decided for personal reasons not to move from SA. There's that saying about hindsight and it's was never truer than in this case.

We get most well known rifle makes from Europe and some sporting big bore calibres from the States. Not much at all in the line of 22's and very few 22mags and I haven't seen a new lever gun in years (but maybe I was not in the market so I have not been actively watching that market).

No rim fire ammunition is reloadable because of the primer in the case but the ammo is so cheap that it would not make economic sense anyway.

I would stick to the 22 in preference to the 17 because these ultralight bullets at very high velocities are not really practical in even slightly windy conditions and this limits their effectiveness. The cost would also be a limiting factor for me as it will certainly limit the amount of shooting one does.

I think the 308 is a great calibre and no accident that it is chosen as the full bore bisley rifle around the world. I just have a soft spot for the 270 because it performed so well and mine shot so well with so little fuss. It was a Sako L61 and groups under an inch at 100M were no problem with a full case of Norma 205 powder at max velocities near to 3 200fps. Maybe it was that I could just shoot better in those days! I am quite sure that either rifle would serve your hunting needs in NZ, especially if you reloaded for it.

Boet.

[mudgrip4]

It's a good thought re the 17HMR - have had concerns re extreme lightness of this slug - just 17or 20grains. Blown around or deflected by anything. This was a problem earlier when many hunters wanted to use light .222s in bush conditions to hunt deer. Am not a great fan of lightweight slugs for bigger game.

308 might be the go I think, though would also use a 270 if a good value rifle pops up. Sako a well regarded brand though about $3000 new here in NZ. Just about the price of an Isuzu!

Mike.

[isuzumate]

Hi Mike,

The smaller the slug, the bigger the problem. Because the bullet is so small and the velocities so high, they turn into flying bombs and you have terrific meat damage on any carcass. We had a 220 Swift (beautiful rifle - a Husquavana also built on a 98 Mauser action) which launched a 45gr bullet at 4 110fps and most did not even penetrate the carcass if it was shot at less than 100m. It just totally broke up when it hit anything solid. This almost always ends up with a wounded animal. Bad news tracking after wounded game.
Another problem is that these high velocity calibres are real barrel burners and soon the accuracy also drops off and you need to re-barrel the rifle to get it to shoot again. All in all, not really practical in the long term.
The 270/308 is a solid choice.

I don't know if you have ballistic tables available to you in your club maybe but check out my favorite rifle these days - a 7 x 61S&H. This is over gunning for your needs but is one of the finest calibres ever produced. It is a 300H&H case necked down to 7mm and the only company that built a rifle commercially for this calibre were Schultz and Larsen from Denmark. You have to go far to beat this cartridge's performance right out to 300m. The only ammunition you could buy for it is made by Norma and for years they only offered a 160gr round and it has a velocity of 3 100 fps and at 300m it is still traveling at 2 595fps. No other commercial cartridge can do that - check it if you like. It is also one of the flattest shooting calibres available today. A truly great cartridge and also a beautiful rifle. This is my ultimate rifle.

Boet.

[turnturn]

I quite like my .243 as an allrounder.

[mudgrip4]

I had a remington 600 (mohawk) many years ago, a .243, and loved it - very accurate and a fine little caliber. The light softnose 80grain bullet was especially interesting when used on bunnies at 200+ yards... quite colorful really. Would love to find another one but they are collector's items these days.

The old man also had the Schulz and Larsen 7x61 you refer to Boet. A fine rifle and very potent slug - no doubt superb on the range over distances. He did not keep it as a hunter however as it was fairly long barrelled and heavy, and not so good to carry for long days hunting in the Alps. Do you have any stats on the 9.3?

Mike

[isuzumate]

Hi Mike and "Turnturn",

The .243 was always considered a bit light for our shooting in SA because firstly, our hunting regs used to specify a calibre of not less than 6,5mm so it was just shy of this. In all my years of hunting I never saw anyone who was prosecuted for using a smaller rifle on a hunt. I also agree that this is a great calibre and a lot better that the 222/223/22-250 varmit calibres. Again, with the heavier bullet you just have so much more scope, especially if you reload.

My 7x61 is also a bit heavier than average and also has a 26in barrel. It is heavier to carry but the recoil is a lot more manageable than a lighter rifle would be.

I do not have a lot of ballistic info on the 9,3 because we never owned one. It is also not listed in the American cartridge ballistic data I have. In our local data I see they list a 250gr bullet having a maximum speed of 2425fps which is in line with the 375H&H at 2638 for a 270gr bullet using the same powder.

Enjoy your shooting.

Boet.

[mudgrip4]

Hi Boet

Found some ballistic stats for the 9.3x62 with a 286 grain bullet. Muzzle velocity of 2362fps, and 1931fps at 200 meters. But punch is 3544 ft/lbs at muzzle, with still 2370 ft/lbs at 200 meters. This might not be an ideal very long range slug - very heavy - but it certainly packs one helluva wallop out to 2-300 yards - ideal for bigger game animals. I'd rather not stand in front of this one.

Mike

[isuzumate]

Hi Mike,

I always compare this against the 7x61 and if it can stand up to it, then I know what to expect from the calibre.

The 7 hits at 3415ft pounds at the muzzle and at 200. At 300 it is still 2393. This is based on the 160gr bullet. At 300yds it is only surpassed by the mighty 308 Norma Mag and only by 34ft pnds but requiring 30% more powder to do it..

This puts the 7x61 in true prospective and why I think it is one of the greatest cartridges of all time. It is a stock rifle cartridge but performs like a wildcat. I just love reloading and shooting this rifle.

Boet.

[wimbiweewoo]

I like the barrett light .50 cal, with its range it saves gas ...