35's too extreme?

[dasnoboarder]

OK, I know I've done a lot of "i'm going to do this" and then not done it on this forum. Mainly because of financial difficulties.

What do you think of this?
3" Body Lift
2" Suspension Lift
Bullbar
Snorkel
Lokka front & LSD rear
Exhaust
Tyres & Rims

I was planning for 33x12.5 tyres ... but now I'm wondering ... how much difficulty would I have to go through to fit 35x12.5?

They'll be Wrangler MT/Rs on steel white spokes...

Could it be possible with 5" lift & minor body trimming?

Andy

[geeves]

If I was on a students budget I couldnt even afford to think about these mods.
Its possible but its more than minor body trimming. Also you will run out of torque from the 4jb1 without doing a ratio change which pushes the price up.
Why do you want 35 inch tyres? If its to look cool dont do it. If your doing a lot of heavy duty tracks expect to have a lot of repairs. Try the 33s first they might fit the bill quite well.
Your list comes to over 4000 just in parts

[dasnoboarder]

I'll go into a tyre shop, put both the 33 & 35 next to the truck and see how I feel.

Spending that much money on tyres and only going up 2 inches seems a bit of a waste ... Apart from going from A/T's to Muddies ;D

Want the bigger tyres to get that extra 1" total lift and diff clearance ... and of course the looks a bit as well.

I didn't think about the repair bills... I'll be lowering front diff, HD tie rods & steering stabiliser too.

[Jimmu]

Sounds like a good list:

3" Body Lift - I have 2" 3 inch is alot more work with extensions on many lines required and the gear shift would need some major work. Mine needed to be bent alot with the 2".

2" Suspension Lift - I have close to 3 at the back and 2 at the front unloaded. Loaded it is even.

Bullbar - I have the TJM - It cost me $385 from a wrecker and a few hours fitting it to the lift.

Snorkel - I used the air flow. Cheap but to be honest I would not do it a second time as it is very poorly designed airflow wise. I would fit a custom 3" alloy or SS snorkle if I did it again.

Lokka front & LSD rear - I have the Lokka in the front of mine. It is awesome so far. It does wonders for countering the weak traction of the IFS.

Exhaust - I have done a 2.5" Mandrel with custom dump pipe. Dont bother doing it without the dump pipe as the stock dump pipe is the major restrictor in the system. I would lose the muffler if I did it again too and just go straight pipe to the end. Sweet ass turbo souds result.

Tyres & Rims - 35's are going to be major work to fit. 33's are hard enough. Also as geeves pointed out to get any performance out of the vehicle with 35's you would have to drop the gearing which is big bucks in itself. I would suggest 33's if you want to upgrade the tires. That is what I am going with. I think the standard alloys look great. Maybe not wide enough for 35's though.

Jimmy

[dasnoboarder]

Thanks for the info Jimmu.

Sounds like I'm going to have a battle with the 3" body lift, but I still think it's the best choice for me.

I am also thinking of a TJM bullbar, one with the raised centre section (t15?). Did you have to custom weld it on with the body lift? Or could you use brackets?

For the snorkel, I'm going to talk to "4WD systems" down the road as they are the people who are going to put in my Lokka and see wat system they offer.

3" mandrel bent with dump pipe. Was thinking straight through muffler, you still think no muffler at all? Will it be under the legal limit? (Around 95dB)

As always, you guys have talked me out of the most extreme ideas i've had (the 35's). I guess they'll just have to wait for when the truck is SAS'd in a couple of years

The standard alloys were already gone by the time I bought my MU. I've got "15x8 Gold 5-Spoke Berg 4WD Alloys"

Andy

[James W]

The problem with any lift and tyre clearance is a liff gives you more clearance at the top of the wheel arch (height) but does not change the wheel arch width at all. It moves up a little which gives some small benefit, but doesn't really help much. Problems with bigger tyres will always be on wheel arch width and tyre width, that is the 12.5" of 33"x12.5". As you turn the front wheels that 12.5" becomes a diagional within the 'box' of the wheel arch at will foul the corners of the arch.

[mudgrip4]

There is another aspect to the tyre size question which it might be good to raise. There is increasing pressure in NZ on clubs and 4wders to limit tyre size to 33". This is because of the damage big tyres (35-40") do to public access tracks. After a group of trucks with big tyres have gone through a track in soft conditions, the track is virtually unusable for others - for club trucks, the landowners, Doc staff etc as the ruts are too deep. Our club (Canterbury Recreational 4wd Club) and many others now have a limit of 33" as a condition of membership. Tyre size restriction is now something some station owners and DOC people are asking about , ask for as we plan trips

I have lead alot of trips for my club and am about to take 20 4x4s for 4-5 days up in the Central Otago mountains over Labour weekend. Big tyre damage is a major factor in tracks being shut down to us, and with 4 of the 5 tracks we will be doing tyre size is an issue regarding access. Some DOC staff are violently anti-4wd and we've had real struggles keeping tracks open over the years. One Christchurch track was so badly damaged just weeks ago, ordinary trucks with 32-33" tyres can't get up now.

So there is a bigger picture regarding the image of 4wders, clubs, and acceptable tyre size. I was at the forefront of major access battles with Doc and councils a couple of years ago, and I assure you this is now a real issue for NZ and the future of 4wding. Other clubisuzu people who are active members of clubs in NZ will be well aware of this also.

I don't doubt there is a real place for big tyres but you have to pick your places more carefully - riverbeds, trials tracks, private parks, backcountry tracks which are not monitored and where damage doesn't matter so much - places where there will be no public PR backlash. However, the fact is most of the tracks we use are owned or monitored by landowners, councils, DOC etc and it is presently a hell of an uphill battle to keep presenting ourselves as environment-responsible sport when public tracks are regularly torn to bits. Tread lightly.

So give your tyre size a bit of thought Andy, and by all means buy 35s if you wish - just remember there is a bigger picture we are trying to hold together, and use them thoughtfully in any public access environments.


Hereendeththelesson.. PS: have no knowledge of Aus or overseas conditions in this regard.

Cheers Mike.

[InVinceble]

Well put Mike.

I'm a newbie to this and have already found the nearest track to me (that's in the Ken Sibley book) has been closed off for the very same reason. ... a real shame 'cos it's a "long-cut" to town too!

[geeves]

That wasnt Halfway Bush Road was it? When my father was working as a courier he used to run a hiace van over there. The only time Ive been that way it was fairly rough but it was mid summer so all the ruts had set like concrete. i heard that the council forgot this was a legal road and put a water pipe down the middle and didnt cover it properly then got worryed that road users would damage the pipe.
There is a story about that road that I have no intention of telling Ever

[Dave]

I am still not overly convinced with the limiting of tyre size. Sure the big boys running 35's and V8's with their foots flat will do a lot of damage, but a good driver on 35's could also do LESS damage than someone on 33's, depending on the circumstances.

A Mu on 33's can potentially do more damage to a track than my Safari on 35's, because he will dig deeper trenches than I will, as I don't have the diff clearance.



My 2c

[geeves]

Does anyone remember the days when there was only one 4wd tyre available for any 4wd. It was the SAT in any size as long as it was 7.50x16 This worked out to about a 33 inch tyre. It was the days when land rover was still king of the hill and nothing had big diffs. I was sent a link recently to an Icelandic site recently which had there idea of correct tyre sizes. For a suzuki they reconed 31 inch for a Mu/Bighorn it was 35 inch and for the big trucks nothing less than 44 inches.
Driven correctly in most circumstances a big tyre wont do more damage ecept that it can get through where the smaller tyre would fail thereby causeing normal wear on an otherwise unusable section of track. In clay every time you drive a track it wears down a bit but this is normaly compensated by diff rub etc so the track stayes useable by everyone. Run a few over tyred wagons through and the diffs dont rub so the ruts become too deep for anyone else. This is without any wheelspin. In soft mud this is even worse and tracks quicly become useless.
This is without the extra strain put on everything. At a recent rally in Wellington one Cruiser broke 3 cv joints in one day on 35s. A freind broke 2 cvs in one day on a Mu and only had 33 inch tyres. (hes an x mechanic and changed the first cv in 30 min from the time he borrowed my hilift to the time he gave it back)
I run 31 inch tyres and have done for nearly 10 years 32 inch tyres might be coming soon but it depends on spare money

[InVinceble]

Geeves - missed the Halfway Bush Road mention earlier - yep, that's the one.
Here's my story about that road.... I will confess to owning a Mu some time ago. Trips to town with the girlfriend were via SH1 .
Trips to town on my own could "surprisingly" take up to an hour longer, but the smile was always bigger ;D
Now, what's your story??

[geeves]

This will raise some laughs but was not nice at the time. Middle of summer and the top section of the road looked like the Ausi desert Not a damp spot in sight but several rocks that had probably been used for traction in the wet. Driveing along there a little fast and made the stupid decision to go round one of these rocks. The long grass at the side of the road is actualy very long grass and hides a steep embackment. With a roof rack on top 40 deg does not feel very nice. Had to chip a small trench for the front tyre to follow then put the tow rope on the front and got the passengers to pull sidways while I drove back up the side which took 2 attempts as it crossaxled at the top. No one else around to help with the recovery which was probably a good thing They might of had cameras.

[crazydave]

Dasnoboarder, did you end up fitting the 35's in the end?
I am running 33's now and was contemplating going bigger, 34's or 35's for the extra ground clearance. Is anyone running these sizes other than the sas guys, I still have IFS. Would like to know what you had to do and how you find it.

[dasnoboarder]

I've settled on getting 33's because of gearing and fear of breaking cv's. My truck is getting a lokka installed today, so the risk of cv's breaking will be greater than usual. If Wrangler MT/R's came in 34's I'd be getting them though


Did you find much difference going from 31's to 33's? Rollover ability, clearance etc?

[mudslinger]

i run 34x10.5x16 super swampers. i think 12.5 wood struggle to fit at hard lock? havent broken any cv's yet. those wranglers have awesome grip, my mate put a set of 33's on his truck and in 3 trips he has broken a cv 3 times. so dont give it assholes to much wit that lokka or you'll break "you know what". my 10c worth

[crazydave]

I did a springover conversion, changed shock position, torsion bars, bodylift, traction arm & 33's all at the same time so it made a hell of a diiference. Don't get hung up on stuff like before and approch and departure is a lot better. The main thing that I noticed was the gearing, but now that I am used to it I would not go back. Bigger is Better.

[mudgrip4]

Mudslinger - your mate with the lokka must be really hammering his truck if he's busted 3 cvs in 3 trips. That's not necessary and with a bit more careful driving he could avoid all of that. Have had mine in for about 9 months or so and busted one cv through powering on with full lock trying to get out of a soft river. It would of course be insensitive of me to mention James W had just drowned my truck in the river on a bunny shooting expedition...so I won't mention his name..

From my experience so far, using front lokka is a pretty black and white situation. They add alot to truck performance - esp with uneven ground and climbing, and if you don't bounce them - esp on hard surfaces, and don't apply tons of power on full lock - they will do very well and last. But if we do bounce and power them on full lock - expect to break them. Pretty much that simple.

Am also coming round to the view of experienced Cantab men who have them in the front of their isuzus. They don't do shackle and torsion bar lifts much or balljoint flips, but stick with bodylift using spacers, because this keeps the angle of the cv shafts alot flatter = less likely to break under load. I suspect every few degrees angle extra on the cv would make it quite alot weaker. I think if setting up my truck again, esp when planning to add a front lokka, I'd probably stick with body lift.

Mike.

[mudslinger]

the thing is my mate hasnt got a lokka , they jus break. he broke 2 on the worseleys and 1 at the waimak

[isuzumudman]

Here's my 2c worth.
I have LSD rear & air locker front on UBS69. I did both front cv's (outer) a couple of weeks ago simply because I misread the terrain (underwater). A lesson learned.