Electrical problem i think

[teddy]

Hey guys,

I have a problem with my 1999 Frontera S.

When i first start the car, (hot or cold), and go to take off slow (pulling out of a car park set of lights), all my dash electrics drop out (radio, UHF, Speedo, Tako) as well as my ABS air bag and 4X4 lights come on, my radio (aftermarket pioneer i think) looses it memory. The car does appear to loose a little power but does not stall at all. The 1st two time it did it (driving forward) it also made a sound like the hand brake was still on (but it wasn't). the 3rd time (in reverse) i could not hear that sound.

this has happened 3 times now.

I have only had the car about 2 months, it was fairly well modified when i got (dual batteries, dual tanks, lifted, bigger wheels and so on).

has anyone had the problem before? is it an easy fix?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Gordon

[geeves]

dont sound good.
petrol or diesel?
Temporaly fit a voltage meter across the battery and see what it shows when this happens. Im putting my money (only a small amount) on a bad battery

[teddy]

Its a Petrol...

with the dual battery set up it as 2 voltage metres, bot appear to be increasing in voltage while driving, but the moment i turn off the motor they start dropping in volts fairly fast, this is with nothing running off either battery.

if its only a battery, thats an easy fix, i'll buy a new one...

thanks for your help.

[geeves]

With the engine running they should be about 14.5 volts. With the engine off it should stabilize at just over 12 volts. The batteries could take anything from a minute to several hours to stabilize. Interesting that you have 2 volt meters. This would indicate a fancy dual battery setup which tries to keep one battery good for starting the other for accessories instead of the far more common bolt the 2 batteries together and it'l be right. Normally the complicated setup is better but its another thing that could be causing your problem.
being petrol eliminates glow plug issues

[teddy]

with the motor running the meter attach to the 2nd battery (a deep cycle) sits on about 13.6/ volts. the other meter sits on about 23.6 volts but sometimes reads HI (this one looks to be only attached to the main battery).

as soon as i turn the motor off both read outs start dropping down in volts... the one attached to the 2nd battery will drop down to about 10.7 Volts within a matter of 5 mins tops. (this is with nothing running at all)

Yeah it is a set up with the isolators and all that, not sure of the brand, i didn't install it.

when i put a multi meter on the deep cycle about an hour after i tuned the engine off it only read about 10.68 volts, when i put it on the main battery it reads about 13 volts (now unfortunately I'm not the most technically minded so i may not be doing it right).

would a dead 2nd battery (non starter) cause the above problems, or is it possible that the main battery is dead and drawing power from the deep cycle to keep it charged up?

i think i am confusing myself now... but thanks again for your help.

[geeves]

where are you
You have something funny going on It might be the battery but I dont think so. You might have to consult an auto electrician. I realy suspect your dual batery settup wasnt put in right

[Pissy]

I'd say your battery is dead.
I have exact same problem with my dual battery set up.

Last week i noticed my second bat {120 AGM amp hour} was flat (11.6 volts , I have a battery monitor on my dash)

I start the car, the relay swicthes power and charges both batteries at around 14.2 volts, I can drive around hours on this but I shut down the car the main is good (13.2volts) while the second drops from 13 down 11.6 over a couple of hours.

I went to auto electricain and he thinks it the second battery is dead, he did battery load test on it, the volts was OK BUT it does not hold the charge.

I have to buy a new battery, will not go AGM again, only 2 years at $320,....going for a $200 120 amp hour lead acid battery.

[geeves]

I was looking at the 23.6 volts. If that battery isnt faulty it soon will be

[James W]

Pissy is the AGM battery not lead acid?

Different battery chemistry's have different charging voltages (13.4 Volt for lead acid)... not a good idea to mix them on the same charging circuit... unless they are designed for this.... otherwise it may shorten the battery life by either under charging or over charging... or with some battery idolaters or dual battery setups a diode is in line which gives a 0.6 Volt drop.... again not ideal

[teddy]

Apr 18, 2008 14:41:33 GMT 11 geeves said:

I was looking at the 23.6 volts. If that battery isnt faulty it soon will be

the 23.6 volt is both batteries together, hence just under 28 volt (while driving). but in saying that, i put a battery tester on my 2nd battery today and its defiantly DEAD.

went for a drive today, noticed another fault, which i kinda think might be the main fault, just everything else comes off this one...

i have 2 fuel tanks (standard 85Lt) but an ARB fitted 2nd tank, while running off the main tank everything is fine, but then i noticed that the gage did not move off the full mark, even though i had done 200 km's, i assume i have a fualty fuel sender in the 2nd tank or maybe a loose wire. On my way to my mates place today (50km each way) i stopped and filled up a 10Lt jerry can, (just in case) good thing i did cause i ran out of fuel about 5 kms down the road. in the short 10kms between home and when i ran out of fuel it did the same power loss thing 2 or 3 times. (was was testing to see how far i can get on my two tanks hence the main tank was already empty.)

after putting the 10Lt's in and drove to the next servo i filled the main tank and and ran off that tank for the rest of the day. the problem did not repeat itself at all.

so what i am thinking is wrong, and please tell me if anything does not sound right, is that.

1 the faulty fuel sender and a mix of bad fuel (pick up off the bottom of the tank) made the car run rough, a wire on the fuel sender might be a little loose. Because none of these problems started untill i ran the 2nd tank nearly empty.
2 the dead second battery would not be helping the whole situation.

i will have a look under the car tomorrow (when cold) and check the connection on the fuel tank, i Will replace the 2nd battery (when $$$ let's me). i will pull the dash out and have a look for any loose wires back there, and hope this fix's the problem (assuming it come back again)

thanks again for all your help and BTW i am in Brisbane AU.

[geeves]

28 volts would be correct for a 24 volt system but that does not make sense. Ive never seen a 24 volt isuzu 4wd. Every other dual bat setup has effectively had the batteries in parallel so still 12 volt.
Only times Ive heard of 12 to 24 volt conversions it has been to run big winches
Also check the batteries are both installed the right way round

[rick1970]

Mite be stupid, but check to make sure the second tank has a breather (that works) if the problem is only there when second tank is used. If solenoid changeover for the second tank, is the coil OK, low voltage to coil causing it to close sometimes?

The 23.6v is puzzling. Check, double check, then check the dual battery instalation again, before you fry something expensive. Unhook it all and check. Can't see why someone would rig up a guage to read 28v (both batteries combined) in a 12v aplication.

[liddell]

You should be able to disconnect the deep cycle battery altogether (2nd battery) and this will help diagnose the problem. It's great that you have a proper system with solenoid and all of that. but unfortunately most people make the mistake of running electrical stuff that the car runs, hence closing the the two (needs to be individual circuits) of the two batteries, and therefore causing more problems.

What is the second battery suppose to run?
Disconnect the second battery? Are you still having problems?
Anything connected to the second battery, shouldn't really use the chassis for earth (use both power and earth directly to the battery or junction box for neatness, unless you put a diode to stop any voltage sharing.

ie: I used to run my stereo from my older 4Wd from the deep cycle battery, earthed directly to second battery , but the switch to turn on the stereo still come from the key, so placed a diode to stop voltage leakage to main system.

Once you do this, then you can isolate (remove 2nd battery) the problem (battery problem?)
if everything still runs when the second battery disconnect, what is it running?

Hope this helps

[teddy]

Thanks guys for all the help, i have not taken my Frontera for a drive since the other day (its my play car). planning on going for another drive in the next few days, but ATM im running off the main tank and the problem seems to be gone.

Will keep u informed.

[teddy]

well she died... now sitting in a mechanic workshop getting fixed... not looking forward to the bill at the end.

the dual battery set up was done badly, loose wires and bad connection everywhere. notr happy but must be fixed.

will keep u imformed.

[teddy]

Well.....

much happy this arvo, got a call from the mechanic around 1630 this arvo saying its ready to pick up, I asked the question how much.... only $350.

not 100% fixed yet, but thats ok.

He has gotten it running, which was the priority at this stage. i have no 2nd battery, and the isolator is not connected plus a few other things.

problem was when the battery set up was installed they swapped the position of the batteries and did a really sloppy job of rewiring it all. the wires that join the starter battery and starter motor were so loose that they would only have a connection half the time. plus a lot of the wiring to the 2nd battery was badly done. the guy said it was the messiest wiring that he had ever come across and i was lucky it did burn to the ground.

so i still have to buy a new deep cycle battery, and get the rest of the wiring sorted out, the workshop that did the work can do the rest for about the same $$$ that i have already spent, plus the cost of the new battery.

well for my car is back on the road, and will just have to save up a few more $$$$ to get the rest of the work done.

I guess i should post some pic and info about my car but that will have to wait until tomorrow.