Anyone running a hydraulic winch?

[InVinceble]

Acknowledging the fact that hydraulic winches can go all day, and I've got a tendency to finn myself on looooong muddy tracks....
is anyone running a hydraulic?
I've been investigating the specs and seeing what's needed for my "bighorn". To keep the cost down, I want it to run from my power steering pump.
I'm considering the chinese Runva brand - similar specs to more well known American brands.
The Bighorn pump is good for 1485psi, good enough to make the pull rate of any model in their line up.
Here's the catch... does anyone know what the flow rate of the pump is? In order to achieve a "reasonable" line speed, the flow needs to 20l/min and over.
I've searched the net for info without success, can any of you guys help?

[James W]

I would like to run hydraulic, there are many good reasons for the idea. However the reasearh I've doen suggests our pumps are to small.... but I can't confirm that. I have a hydraulic motor and will make or adapt the gearing. I am also unsure of WOF issues with tapping into the steering system, in theory it's all right with a diverting valve however Isurance compnays look for any way out they can. The other issue that I'm not comfortable with is how to I mount it on the front without reducing the quite excellent entry angle I have. Certainly I don't want a landcruiser 'patio'

I assume you found www.milemarker.com

Have a look at the applications docs for the winches, there are a few vehicles listed with OEM pumps that you may be able to compare with

[InVinceble]

Aaaargh, forget it!
Ran a test using another pump of known displacement and gearbox of known ratio.
Removed the high pressure hose and fitting from the pump.
Made a rather dodgy connection to it with an undersize fitting and half a roll of PTFE tape.
Started the motor and timed one rev of the gearbox.
Allowing for the "minor" leak at the fitting, the flow rate worked out at 4l/min.
....so unless you're be happy with a line speed of 220mm/min
My investigations into using a "bigger" steering pump has only turned up mega$$$ answers!
..and oh yes I've seen the Milemarker (and better)...
Maybe a cheap and nasty electric will have to do!
James avoid losing your entry angle by fitting it behind your bumper, I'm guessing that it has been raised to suit a body lift?

[James W]

I'm not sure how you turned 4l/m into 220mm/min, you must have sized a motor as well? But yes, it certainly is a problem, unless some compromises are made, such as Hydraulic motor/ winch drum gear ratio... but not quite working in my mind yet... it's been on the back burner for some time this project.

Yes, fitting behind the bumper is what I'm thinking as well, as compact as possible, certainly not as large as some I have seen.

I have toyed with the idea of another hyd pump to get around this. Another pump would avoid any steering/WOF/insurrance issues. I know where there is a spare hyd pump on a combine harvester that my father may not notice is missing... anyway, the catach with that one is where to mount it and drive it of a v belt. Plus I also really don't like running it continious for 365 days a year to use it for 1hr total per year (1hr is a lot of winching), so I'd really like a clutch on it. I have thought a magnetic clutch like an air con unit, possible strip one down and draw of the parts..... all just thoughts at this point

[InVinceble]

Should have written.....I ran a test using another "hydraulic motor" of known displacement - Doh!
motor has displacement of 33ml/rev, gearbox 50:1
1 rev of gearbox gives 1.65l/min
1 rev took 30sec. and I made an allowance for the leak!
The winch specs states 1.1m/min @ 20l/min...... hence the 220mm/min.

The magnetic clutch idea has come in discussions I've had too!

[James W]

Invinceble, do you really need the 50:1 reduction? The tourque from hydraulic motors is quite high... I can't find any numbers, but maybe a 50:1 reduction is not required? Is this something you just setup or a winch/motor you already have?

There are quite a few hydraulic pumps on trademe, some $20 and at least one motor. If I can find some where to mount a pulley driven pump I'm sure I can mount a clutch on it or machine up an adaptor.

<edit -adding more>

Assuming your pump is 1000 psi and 33ml rev and using;
www.engineersedge.com/fluid_flow/displacement_torque_hydraulic_motor.htm

your motor will deliver 75 ft.lb of tourque (95 N.m)

If you want a 3,000kg pull on a 100mm drum the drum tourque required is 3,000kg x 9.81ms^2 x 0.05m = 1471 N.m

so your motor falls short by a factor of 15, so a 15:1 reduction would be required. For a line speed increase by a factor of 3 to about 660mm/min...better but still needs work

[InVinceble]

James, you may be getting a little confused as to what I was doing.
The use of the 33ml/rev motor and 50:1 gearbox was purely to try and determine what flowrate my power steering pump could deliver.
That detail known means I can work out what line speed to expect should I purchase a hydraulic winch.
Most winch manufacturers stipulate a need of high flow rates to get "reasonable" line speed.
Runva make a point of saying that their winch can be run from a power steering pump.
So, in my case, yes they can ...but too slow for my liking!
My mate wants the motor back, so i won't be building my own just yet!

[James W]

Right, I'm with you now sorry, just a method of measuing the flow by way of a known displacement motor. The little reading I have done is that for high flow a vane pump is better than a gear pump, that I imagine is outside the realm of power steering pumps

[geeves]

There is a member of one of the clubs Im in with a 2000 Montery an d one of these winches. It doesnt do the job required.
The electrics are cheap and simple to set up although if you intend to do lots of winching a few ultimer battery's under the front seats could be a good idea. The do have a short work time before needing to cool down though