quack
Isuzu Senior
Posts: 220
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Post by quack on Sept 29, 2007 17:25:08 GMT 11
just wondering if when i flip my balljoints can i do them and get the wheel alingment days later? and can i do a side a day sorta thing while still driving it between times?
plan on doing this and cutting the bumpstops in half this week, also removed the swaybar is there anyother mods that i can do to the front to get more travel?
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Post by James W on Sept 29, 2007 19:59:51 GMT 11
Yes you can, with both done the handling will be a little horrible, especially in the wet, with mine in the wet driving on painted road markings on a corner it started to let go... it would be ok around town and 50km/h with care. But one side only might be a bit nasty... also of course you might have some nasty questions to answer to your insurnace company if you have a ding and they find out what you have done..... Also you may require certifiation.. i'm not sure, mine was thrown in with several other mods so didn't matter for me. A phone call to a certifier would be worthwhile... and if a cert is required you really should also declare it to your insurance company.... a hassel and has a cringe factor...but better than the cost after an crash.
The same also applies to the swaybar. You may want to consider a sway bar quick release which does not require certification as defined by my certifier as it does not alter the set up of the vehicle when engaged.
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Post by geeves on Sept 29, 2007 20:33:14 GMT 11
I did a 30mm lift at the same time as the ball joint flip and this didnt change the wheel alignment very much. It was over 6 months before the alignment was done. If your doing the ball joint flip on its own then wheel alignment as soon as possible is a very good idea.
Cutting bump stops as well does allow as much travel as you can get without a live axle but also increases the angles that the cv joints get to so it would be wise to always carry a spare.
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quack
Isuzu Senior
Posts: 220
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Post by quack on Sept 30, 2007 11:14:02 GMT 11
alrite so how much travel is gained from the balljoint flip, and i take it the amount of travel i gain from the bumpstops is however much i cut off?
i dont really wont to carry a spear cv around so mite just stick with one or the other.
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Post by geeves on Sept 30, 2007 11:57:59 GMT 11
Ball joint flip is worth the thickness of the A arm plus the thickness of the mounting flange plus 5% Its real benefit is effectively lengthening the top A arm allowing wheel alignment to be set after a lift.
Cutting the bump stop gives about double what you cut off due to how its mounted. You can buy low profile urethane bump stops that have the same effect. Technically any change to bump stops requires certification but your WOF man would have to be having a very bad day to ping you on this one.
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Post by mudgrip4 on Sept 30, 2007 12:39:52 GMT 11
The differences with front end articulation from the steps you mention are individually not great. Last year we had a Canterbury club nite at a 4wd shop with a ramp, and tested 25 trucks, including my swb bighorn 2.8. Also went back later and tested a few isuzus, and tried a few things.
The isuzus were surprisingly good. Mine was 5th of 25 club trucks of all makes - almost all modified - with a ramp index of 613. Top trucks a safari and then a rangerover with about 695 - on this ramp. There were many beam axle safaris and cruisers behind mine. The isuzus generally measured 550 to 600, and a 3.1 lwb bighorn measured 570 untouched.
Isuzu strength is rear axle articulation which is why its critical to retain very flexible springs - not heavy duty/extra leaf ones.
With front end, both balljoint flip and trimming bumpstops help to re-centre travel after torsion bar lift and give a small amount of extra articulation. Removing swaybars gives more, but is not recommended for on road travel. Best thing here is quick release sway bar system - see James setup which I had fitted to my truck also. This takes 2 minutes to disconnect and the same to reconnect, and keeps the excellent isuzu onroad handling.
Overall, from my testing on the ramp, the above flip/trimming/ sway bar disconnects gave I'd say about another 50-60 points total. Worth it but not huge. More a matter of tweaking. Trimming bumpstops give some improvement, but not vast as torsion bars hold movement pretty firmly in place.
Far more critical is ensuring you are not using inflexible heavy duty highlift rear springs - these totally killed articulation on many trucks. One well setup toyota cruiser with big lift, locker etc showed just 270 on the ramp because he had used rigid heavy duty high arc springs to get his lift. This truck was 24th of 25 - just ahead of a van!! - and others with heavy duty rear springs including beam axle surfs were not much above it - 3-400.
Another thing to watch is make sure your rear wheel articulation is not being obstructed in movement - may need a bit more lift to avoid guards/chassis, or to remove mudflaps etc. Mudflap removal helped mine alot - possibly 50 points. You can get a clear idea on this by jacking up right and left rear to max while in neutral and spinning each wheel (unless lsd), or just running each rear wheel up onto a bank sometime while driving offroad. You'll hear if there's a problem.
So front end is matter of tweaking rather than huge gains - and I had no cv problems arising from mods there. Some experimenting will be fine, though I would suggest a quick release rather than sway bar removal - bit unsafe on road. Big thing to watch is your rear setup - that's where you can have huge loss of articulation.
Mike.
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quack
Isuzu Senior
Posts: 220
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Post by quack on Sept 30, 2007 13:22:26 GMT 11
sweet thanks for all that, the back of my mu is standard but has longer shackels so still nice and soft.
another thing i forgot to ask is by flipping the joint does this loose out on upwards travel, i.e how far up into the gard it can go?
the mus nice and soft at the mo and ive just been testing it latly on how much it can flex by driving a wheel up big piple of dirt etc, but i seem to notice that that front almost dosnt drop at all, weres the back moves sh**t loads.
ive also had the front swaybar removed for quite some time now, i do notice that it dosnt handle as good on road but hardly noticeable.
will get onto theres mods this week as long as this dam rain goes away.
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Post by geeves on Sept 30, 2007 15:14:45 GMT 11
What ever you do its the bump stops that limit travel.All the ball joint flip does is lowers the wheel raise the A arm so the front wheel is closer the the top of the travel. With the sway bar in place jacking up one side will also lift the other side so if your lifting under the wheel you might not hit the upper stop before both wheels are off the ground but there wont be much left. Disconecting the sway bay will allow this movement but its not that much. Upward travel is not an issue at low speeds and downward travel is what you need to look for. Unfortunately everything you do to lift your truck reduces down travel and everything you do to get this back will weaken the system somewhere else. The Isuzu was built well from the factory and for a standard truck its only real weakness is the low slung transfer case. Anything you do to improve one aspect of your truck will be done at the expense of something else. A suspension lift to allow bigger tyres of raise the transfer case increases the angles the cv joints work at and the bigger the angle the weaker they are Not everyone breaks them I never have and Mudgrip never did but lots of people have. The other way to get big tyres on is to do a body lift but quite a few Mus with body lifts have found cracks in the floor around the mount in front of the front seats. After a body lift you can raise the transfer case but this might cause vibrations.
the list goes on.
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