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Post by Harry on May 11, 2005 20:09:18 GMT 11
Put the sold truck in for a warrant the other day.Failed on steering idler and HANDBRAKE!Replaced the idler with a spare one no problem but I can't get the HANDBRAKE to work properly.My mechanic wants both back wheels to lock up on loose gravel but I can only get the rhs to lock.The best I have had from the lhs is intermittant locking.ie wheel locks then turns a 1/4 of a turn,locks then lets go.I've tried 2 calipers,both seem to work ok,no siezed slides or anything.The cable has full travel when disconnected.The only apperent difference between the lh and rh calipers is when I adjust the rh [ok side] the adjusting screw has tight and loose spots which I assume is some sort cam action while the lhs gradually tightens up until I can't turn the wheel by hand any more.I loosen the adjuster so the wheel just turns freely but when I try it out the wheel doesn't stop.I have a gently sloping gravel driveway,so I don't need to keep going back to the garage each time.Maybe their gravel is different from mine so perhaps I should.
Does anyone have any ideas?The truck has to be ready to go this weekend.I've never stripped one of these calipers right down.Not sure how to get the handbrake shaft [the bit with the spring around it] out of the caliper.
HELP PLEASE,
Harry.
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Post by geeves on May 11, 2005 20:46:39 GMT 11
Id love to see your mechanic appliy that test to a Landrover or cruzer wirh a driveshaft handbrake It aint goint to happen and probably something will break. What pads are you running and how old are they? You could try roughing up the surface of the pad with 60 grit sandpaper (cation may contain asbestos) and the disc surface with 100 - 150 grit paper That might help. Also lubricate all the linkages for the handbrake cable It goes through several pivits etc. Does the handbrake come right up to the end stop with no pressure or does it reach the tight bit so you cant pull any harder. If the first its an adjustment issue if the second then its a pad or linkage issue. The cam action is correct but if you adjust the other one imediatly before the wof it will stay in adjustment till the wof man is happy.
The cables need to be free moveing inside the casings or the handbrake wont auto adjust correctly It may even maladjust itself.
There is a good artical about these callipers under publications on the main clubisuzu page.
Good luck
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Post by Harry on May 11, 2005 21:52:23 GMT 11
Thanks Geeves.Everything is working as it should except that the pads on the lhs don't seem to grab the disc tight enough to lock it.I can lock the disc tight enough with the adjuster screw via an allen key but I can't test it properly.A fence batten in the wheel studs isn't the same as the vehicle rolling down the driveway.I've started dismantling the other caliper but it looks as though I've got to take out the circlip out of the inside centre of the bore but my pliers are at work so it wil have to wait till tomorrow.I'm thinking of taking the caliper off my other road truck and put it on the problem one.At least thenit will be ready togo and I'll have money to overhaul the caliper for me.
Regards,Harry.
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Gobbles
Isuzu Junior
92' 2.8L TD MU - Black + Panel Damage
Posts: 121
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Post by Gobbles on May 12, 2005 8:02:39 GMT 11
Which state/country are you in because that sounds like bull****.......the Handbrake is there to keep the car stationary....not to be used as an Emergency Brake....you'll find that hardly any RWD driven car will stop when you pull the HB up.
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Post by James W on May 12, 2005 8:30:31 GMT 11
There are two things that frustrate me with handbrakes, one is Isuzus marginal design and the other is bad testing standards. Why the hell do people keep insisting on testing a PARK brake while moving. Challenge your mechanic, skiding on gravel is not any sort of calibrated test.
Put some bald tires on rather than big mud grips.... this will afect his usual "method" compared to cars. In fact I find if I get mine to lock up on gravel in front of my workshop it takes FURTHER to stop than when it doesn't lock up!
Ask for the standards, ask for specifics...
In NZ the standard I believe is to stop in 10m from 30km/h (I think - hell memory fading) or hold on a 1 in 6 slope. I don't think I've ever met the first but can meet the slope test ok.
The other problem is that it's under the dash, when you pull it what happens is you move foreward and can't get as much pressure on than you can with an on the floor lever which pulls you into the seat. So make sure they pull it on properly, I failed and then passed one warrant by having them on about pulling it on properly, (use words like "girls blouse" and "you want me to try?" for motivation). :-)
But having said all that these handbrakes do need a little effort to maintain and keep working, but it sounds like to me yours is pretty typical for a good Isuzu handbrake, you have checked everthing that I would.
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Post by Graham on May 12, 2005 9:12:02 GMT 11
An old small car of mine had 4 wheel discs and the handbrake could not lock up the back wheels while travelling, ever! It held fine on hills though.
Is the Handbrake here a disc, or is there a drum inside that?
Can you swap the pads over from left to right? Would that make any difference?
Feel free to challenge it. Are your road standards available on-line, a bit of research may help.
Good luck! Graham
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Post by geeves on May 12, 2005 13:43:01 GMT 11
A cunning plan to trick the handbrake test. 50psi in rear tyres This would mean hardly any road contact so almost no grip so wheels will lock easily. Dont drive to far with this pressure.
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Post by geeves on May 12, 2005 16:26:03 GMT 11
Every time I think about this I keep comming back to the 2 slides on each caliper Ive had to fix mine useing brute strenght and lots of ignorance seval times on each side.
For one side to work properly and the other not then the only options are the rear cable or the calliper. Remember that one slide is the bolt and one is a sleeve that the bolt goes through. This is the troublesome one and experts free it useing a hammer (or at least they did on mine).
Also double check both rear cables They must run free or they unwind the adjuster.
A quick test for these brakes is to operate the handbrake cam on the calliper by hand and see if the brake grabs enough to prevent the wheel turning by hand. You cant put much pressure on it but turning the wheel at the same time isnt easy.
good luck
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Post by Harry on May 12, 2005 16:48:09 GMT 11
Sorry,I think I've confused everyone.The original test was done with the inertia thingy.It was on the retest that he said he would be happy if it locked both wheels on the gravel workshop yard.The fact that one wheel locks and the other doesn't means one brake is working better than the other.The problem is that I can't get the lhs to work as well as the right.I thought I would use the caliper out of my good truck but when I tried it this evening it's the same.I finished dismantling the other caliper today.The shaft that the lever pulls on runs in a needle roller bearing.This bearing has a section missing to allow the shaft to push on the piston.However as I pulled it all to bits a needle roller fell out.It should have been retained by the cage.If it had already been wandering around,it may have been jamming the actuater.I'm not sure if the bearing will work ok with one roller gone[cage is slightly damaged and won't retain the roller] and I can't get the rest of the bearing out without destroying it.I hate to think what a new bearing will cost and I bet no one makes an after market one with the missing bit.I'm going to dismantle another another caliper tonite to see if it's the same.I have a MU manual but its's a pommie one and their MUs seem to have gone from drum brakes straight to the later Bighorn style with a small drum inside the disc to do the handbrake job.
Rgards,Harry.
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Post by Harry on May 15, 2005 21:25:48 GMT 11
Got my warrant yesterday.Seemed ok on Thursday nite but when I got to the garage on Friday afternoon they were too busy to check it.Good thing too cause when I got home it was playing up again.Used the caliper off my road truck.Oiled both cables and guides.I needed everything going for me.Still wasn't real good at home on Sat morning but ok at the garage.Looser gravel I think.So the truck's gone and I've got the money[cash ]damn smiley won't work .So I still don't know for sure what was wrong but I guess I'll find out more next warrant time for my road truck.
Regards,Harry.
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Garth
Isuzu Senior
1989 Bighorn Irmsher R LWB
Posts: 164
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Post by Garth on May 31, 2005 12:56:34 GMT 11
Finally got sick of my rear brakes not working properly and poor handbrake. looked at reconditioning the exisiting calipers but they were really corroded so got a new one, $450ish from Autolab (holden parts) each!! have done the RHS now but still have to fix up the left one when I can afford it. Not a cheap piece of kit but nice to have brakes that work.
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Post by geeves on May 31, 2005 15:36:22 GMT 11
Thats a good price I priced these a few years ago at BNT for about double that I hate to think what one in a genuine box would cost..
Its amazing how much prices vary Youve realy got to ring round everyone each time you buy somthing as cheapest for one thing does not nessecsaryly mean cheapest for somthing else
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Post by mudgrip4 on Jun 1, 2005 13:11:39 GMT 11
If you still have problems with getting a warrant, I recommend you adjust the mechanic situation and go find a new service station - preferably one without a gravel strip out back. Have done over 70k in my bighorn and have found Isuzu handbrake efficiency to vary in a range between absolutely p*** poor right up to fairly hopeless. Its guaranteed to hold your vehicle superbly in every possible driving condition...so long as its dead flat. Anything beyond that is distinctly dangerous. Handbrake lever is rather like those buttons on the left side of the bighorns dash panel- they look great but don't actually seem to do anything. Mr Isuzu's little joke...Goodluck - Mike
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Post by geeves on Jun 1, 2005 16:25:28 GMT 11
On mine those 2 switches are headlight and rear demister and a blank. My handbrake has now gone through 3 wofs in a row without maintanance betweentimes Next one will get a congratulations card from Mr Isuzu himself. Even now I occasionaly pull it all the way to the endstop with no resistance but it always works the next time. If I park on a hill I always leave in gear such is the trust I have in that handbrake
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Post by James W on Jun 2, 2005 9:49:08 GMT 11
Yes, there are issues with Mu handbrakes, however being positive it is possible with some work to get them working ok. Mine is not to bad most of the time now
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Garth
Isuzu Senior
1989 Bighorn Irmsher R LWB
Posts: 164
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Post by Garth on Jun 17, 2005 13:54:07 GMT 11
That price for new rear caliper was for the genuine Isuzu one, aparently they have dropped the price by about $200 in the last year as none were being sold! Have to go out and do the Left one now as it still failed a WOF for the handbrake, and the caliper is a bit too corroded to save so new one will be best.
Also failed on Brake pedel slowly going to floor when your foot is on it, wondering if anyone else has had similar problem. System has been bled and no leaks anywhere, maybe master cylinder getting buggered?
cheers
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Post by geeves on Jun 17, 2005 17:42:56 GMT 11
Could be internal seals in the master cylinder Ive had that on a previous car But also lift the dust boots on all the callipers as the leak might not of got past these yet
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Garth
Isuzu Senior
1989 Bighorn Irmsher R LWB
Posts: 164
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Post by Garth on Jun 22, 2005 16:40:42 GMT 11
new master cylinder for $75 and she's away again with a new wof.
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Post by mudlark on Aug 1, 2005 21:58:42 GMT 11
Just bean online with our frends at Bitz for Isuzu and a reconed caliper is $240 odd and that is if you send them your old ones but all the opchins have not bean tryed yet for me as I am nowen as a bit of a tight ass when it is time to spend money on things that i might be abill to fix my salf I also have a frend that worked for the locil Holedn dealer as a parts man and he toald me that one with Isuzu stamped on id was about $1300. so i sead I gess the new undes for me and the wife are out of the questin tor the next 10years then and he replyed with (I Gesssss so ) and I sead you have some 4/4' then till i save the coin !!
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