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Post by mudgrip4 on Jul 27, 2005 6:56:49 GMT 11
Have noted several comments re breaking of cv joints on mus - esp those with front lockers. Have quite a number of club friends with lockered bighorns here in Canterbury and none report this as a problem. However, I broke one on my bighorn last weekend after smacking v large boulder and am replacing this tomorrow night. Suspect it may have just worn out with time as it is original and has done 175k. Otherwise is first offroad damage in about 140 tracks. Bighorn proving v tough little truck.
A couple of points for discussion here:
-when choosing replacement parts, experienced clubmates told me not to go for repco replacement outer cv but to find a good 2nd hand part as the metal in the repco aftermarket product is pretty crap, nowhere near as strong as the original isuzu cvs. Have taken this advice. For those regularly breaking cvs this might be an idea.
Other point the wrecker told me - I was unaware but he seemed certain of this - is that the bighorn cv is quite a bit heavier construction than those in the mu - that for the mu, Isuzu went to a much lighter type of cv, possibly reverting to the type in the old 2.2 bighorns of early 80s. Haven't pulled my one off yet and compared it, but if this is the case, I wonder if the two parts are interchangeable - if you could fit the bighorn cv to the mu and toughen the front up a bit. Bighorn cvs wear out over time like any part, but it is very rare for them to break - even with heavy off-roading. Except of course when arguing the toss with v large reluctant boulders......Comments? Mike
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Post by justin on Jul 27, 2005 7:35:53 GMT 11
Interesting stuff Mike. I can confirm that the Repco ones last about 12 months, (based on about 8 decent trips a year) and the last one I snapped , (no 3) was a repco joint and the inner race cracked in half. Mind you the two before that were both Isuzu joints and the same thing happened and I would hazzard a guess that Mr Yamamoto who owned my truck previously probably was a bit more caring with it. Bottom line is, repco are most likely not as good quality but very cheap. Second hand bits are a gamble and I think a purpose built heavy duty option would be the only thing I would pay a premium for. J
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Post by geeves on Jul 27, 2005 7:47:38 GMT 11
I know a mu that always carrys a spare cv now but they look identical to the bighorn ones. If the splines and lenght is the same they will fitt but I dont know if theres actualy a differance. All the ones Ive seen brochen have smashed the outer housing Aparantly there is some sort of sleeve that can be put round this to strenghten but I dont know more.
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Post by mudgrip4 on Jul 27, 2005 14:20:15 GMT 11
Just rang local isuzu agents here in Canterbury - Blackwell Mtrs - and asked them if mu cv joints are interchangeable with bighorn ones and the bloke says no. He says the mu cv shaft is thinner and of lighter construction than bighorn one. Wonder if this applies to all mus or maybe the 3.1s, as the 2.8 mu is same in most respects to bighorn. Except for that cafe culture body of course.. But cv joints would not, from his comment, seem interchangeable.
Also asked him - must have been a moment of mental aberration, or a twisted sense of humour - what Mr Isuzu would charge for a genuine outer cv joint. Repco price was $120 trade incl GST. Isuzu price ex Japan - $1000!!! It appears GM run the company in conjunction with the japanese mafia - I've seldom heard of such a ripoff - except of course in connection with other genuine Isuzu parts. No doubt repco will do a roaring trade in the future. However have bought a very sound 2nd hand inner and outer cv unit complete on shaft from wrecker for $112 incl Gst. Hate to think what it would price at new. Mike.
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Dave
Isuzu Senior
Posts: 169
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Post by Dave on Jul 27, 2005 14:44:05 GMT 11
$1000, thats cheap! While looking for parts for my old GTi-R, I found the price of the geniune umbrella they come with was over $800 ex Japan  Dave |
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Post by geeves on Jul 27, 2005 17:05:45 GMT 11
X Japan probably means they dont expect to sell many I priced some hoses a while ago the small straight hose was 120 x japan the longer hose with 6 bends $28 you cant do much but use the long hose but who in there right mind would even order a section of straight hose.
back to original problem I have heard that porche cv joints can be made to fit but dont know more maybe a web search is in order
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Post by mudgrip4 on Jul 27, 2005 22:06:16 GMT 11
Yes - I also priced various coolant hoses for replacement recently and was given the figure of $120 for just one of them. Then went and hunted round parts shops and bought a bunch of almost the same ones (aftermarket) for mitsis, lasers etc which all fitted with a bit of snipping and mild bending. Prices $8 - 20max per item. JamesW tells me he was quoted $600 for the little solenoid on the starter motor...Imagine what it would cost to build up a new Isuzu motor from parts ex Japan. Be alot cheaper to buy an Aston Martin Vanquish and alter it for offroading. But maybe not so effective.... Mike
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Post by geeves on Jul 28, 2005 9:12:10 GMT 11
Lamborgini and porsche make offroaders The porche one is suposed to be quite good. Ill pass judgment when one enters club champs. I cant imagine most porche owners wanting to get them dirty or worse slightly scratched
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Post by draganlada on Jul 28, 2005 20:30:09 GMT 11
Friend of my was quoted $ 1300 Au for starter motor for his 2.5 diesel 2wd holden rodeo ute
Dragan
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Post by mulover on Aug 13, 2005 18:41:44 GMT 11
I was qouted $1500 dollars for the drivers side cv's from the diff to the hub and $1900 for the passangers side, both ex japan, which really sucks as i keep imploeding inner cv joints. Word of warning!!! never lower the front diff any more than 20mm on a mu that has standard mounts for the front suspension, i imploeded one inner joint and the other one jammed half way out of the housing. If anybody knows of a stronger set-up please let me know. Thanks.
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Post by geeves on Aug 13, 2005 18:59:50 GMT 11
What causes the failure when you lower the diff. I would of thought this would of improved all the angles. The only cvs Ive seen blown have all been outer ones explodeing the outer casing.
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Post by justin on Aug 13, 2005 19:22:26 GMT 11
Hmmm! After my earlier comments about Repco CV's I now have decided to go SAS.... Yep swap to a vehicle that has a solid axle. I took the MU for a little play down at Richmond this morning, first real outing on the 3rd new CV I replaced 5 weeks ago...The result:  The Repco ones used to last a few turns now it's one session apparently. Had to get my mate to tow me backwards out of the mud with his Landy, 3WD just don't cut it. I will get a second hand one from Rob at Jackaroo world next week and throw that in. If that snaps then I'm on the hunt for a new truck because this is as stupid as $1100 for a genuine  J P.S Al! now you've seen one with shaft snapped in half! Least I know my locking hubs are good. |
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Post by mudgrip4 on Aug 13, 2005 23:58:32 GMT 11
Something doesn't sound right with all this cv breaking - my bighorn has used one cv in 17 years, with 140-150 offroad tracks in the last few. Correct me if I'm wrong, but am wondering what kind of driving is happening when these breakages are happening.
Are the vehicles breaking cvs getting lots of air time and bouncing front down onto hard surfaces, or bouncing when front at hard angles - either putting unnecessary pressure on cvs - a seriously wrong thing to do. We might all get a bit of unplanned bounce now and then, but it is to be absolutely avoided wherever possible. You can smash cvs on any make of truck - clubmates do - but once per trip, or per month just doesn't sound right.
Can all get a little wild and woolly now and then, but we really have to drive to protect at risk parts like cvs - a bit of self driver training - esp on the hard surfaces encountered more often in Aus. Could be wrong here but just a thought to ponder.
Another option - what change is required to adapt lighter mu cv system to bighorn setup - could be much cheaper then sas etc. Mike
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Post by mulover on Aug 14, 2005 11:51:03 GMT 11
If you lower the diff too much the inner cv starts to pop out of it s houseing when you fully compress that wheel, a 20mm drop is the optimum. I have never broke an outter cv, only broke inner ones and even then the ball cage usually goes and only sometimes there is a chip out of the outter houseing. Hence why i think the angles on my shafts are up the wops. I am now running repco cv's too and have no problem with them, stuffed both my inner joints and the repco ones still seem fine, must be different metal in austraila. As for converting to bighorn cv's you would probably need to run bighorn hubs, etc as i think the spline count is different, but i could be wrong and i would love to hear from anyone who has tryed this, cause the cv's are about the only weakness in my truck!!!! (APART FROM ME!)
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Post by justin on Aug 14, 2005 14:46:27 GMT 11
Yep I agree with the driver training thing and if I was getting lots of "air" time I'd be saying yep that goes with the territory. But I've never had my MU off the ground except on sand, and the last two times a CV failed it was under load trying to climb up either a rock or a mud bank, (I will have the pics of the weekend on Monday then you'll see). I would hazard a guess its a combo of auto box/frontlokka/and inferior quality steel. This one sheared in half in the center of the wheel which if I know my engineering correctly should not be the weakest spot by miles and is not so affected by the angle of drive. The torsion required to twist a cast steel rod in half is considerable and the race or inner bearings would normally fail first. The inner CV's are genuine and seem fine so I will replace the outer with a second handy next week and see how it goes. J
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Post by Yarno on Aug 14, 2005 15:19:29 GMT 11
hazard a guess its a combo of auto box/frontlokka/and inferior quality steel Also remember that you have a ball joint flip which will allow more downward travel, which cv don't like... but that would break the cage itself. Is you support bearing ok (the small one inside the stub axle)? This could be causing un-nessasary flex in the shaft. Have you tryed to get warrenty on the CV.. |
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Post by justin on Aug 14, 2005 15:36:38 GMT 11
Yep the cage went on the last one but that lasted a year. I had a quick Squiz at the rest of the joint and it seemed fine, no movement and just like a 6 week old one. I don't reckon the chances of a warranty cause of the lokka, lift, oversize tyres, etc.., they could just state it's not suitable for that application. J
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Post by mulover on Aug 14, 2005 17:22:11 GMT 11
They don't need to know that though, i got a replacement set of those ORA hubs from repco, and then got a full refund the second time when i blew them to bits with chains on the front, told them i was just ticking along!! Thinking about it i should have stuck with those hubs cause they broke before my cv's now i have superwinch hubs and i'm breaking cv's agian!!
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Post by geeves on Aug 14, 2005 17:45:41 GMT 11
Talk nicely to one of your mates with a stock Mu. Borrow theres to take it back to Repco then "well theres the car that broke it" They wont know any better
Best deal with a differant repco after that though
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Post by mudgrip4 on Aug 14, 2005 18:43:34 GMT 11
Sounds a bummer - climbing up a rock or mud bank without bounce etc should be elementary - its not a driver issue. What about picking up from a wrecker or private sale a front diff with cvs and hubs complete from a bighorn? Or a rodeo if it is also has heavier front end? Are the driveshaft etc connections compatible? A complete diff/hubs etc might only be $250 or so if you get lucky. And local guys with bighorns with lokkas don't seem to bust cvs. Just a thought - Mike.
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J