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Post by dasnoboarder on Apr 29, 2007 20:15:14 GMT 11
Well... I'm in the middle of installing a rebuilt, custom made turbo into my 2.8 MU. The standard turbo (mine was a VI87) is tiny. It has a 10.5-R exhaust housing. The new one is the same series, IHI RHB52 and bolts straight on. It was rebuilt with new seals and wheels about 2 years ago. On the technical side of things: -RHB52 bearing core -VF10 compressor housing (custom straight inlet pipe welded on) -VF8 or VF10 compressor wheel -VF10 turbine wheel -20-R exhaust housing (basically it means that the new turbo's exhaust side is double the size of the original) Jarrad Whall from TurboCharger Reconditioners (a division of Turbo Care LTD) Christchurch made it. Really nice guy. Has helped me out with many questions about the install. Got new gaskets for the turbo, exhaust and oil return flanges. Also had to get the compressor housing rotated to line up with the intake manifold pipes. I've got to: -Put the studs that came off the turbo-dump pipe flange into a vice and get the nuts off them before I can tighten up the dump pipe. -Attatch the oil return flange (quite tricky when the gasket keeps sliding out of place). Then it's just little things like tightening hose clamps etc. Hopefully will be going for a drive tomorrow night and setting the boost to what the old turbos was. Then play with the fuel adjustment screw. I'm going to increase the boost when I get the exhaust and intercooler done. Here's some pics:     Tell me your ideas or opinions ;D Andy. |
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adam
Isuzu Junior
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Post by adam on Apr 29, 2007 20:33:26 GMT 11
Where did you source the new one from, is it a mix of other OEM turbos, or all from the one car/motor ?
Do you have a front mount / top mount yet?
Very interested to see the dyno sheet if/when you get an intercooler & the fuel adjusted.
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Post by dasnoboarder on Apr 29, 2007 20:39:50 GMT 11
O yea! I found it on trade me.
Jarrad Whall from TurboCharger Reconditioners (a division of Turbo Care LTD) Christchurch made it. Really nice guy. Has helped me out with many questions about the install. It's a mix of IHI parts.
The VF8 turbo is from the 1990 Subaru RS Legacy, but that has a different shaped turbo flange. I don't know what car this exhaust housing came from...
No intercooler at the moment. Am going to do a front mount intercooler sometime in the next few months.
If I ever get around to doing the dyno tune, I'll post the sheets up for you.
Cheers.
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Post by dasnoboarder on Apr 30, 2007 20:27:48 GMT 11
Got everything in, minus 1 turbo to dump pipe bolt. The whole stud came out with the nut, will check when i get the nut off, but i think the stud is too short...
We started it up, bit smokey but ok, no leaks that we could see...
So we took it for a drive.
Noticed no power up to 3000revs and lots of smoke. Engine also got quite hot.
Got home (just went down the road) and there was smoke coming from around the dump pipe area/exhaust.
So I'm thinking the engine must not be getting air or boost.
Any ideas? ...Need help...
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adam
Isuzu Junior
Posts: 103
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Post by adam on Apr 30, 2007 20:35:35 GMT 11
That doesn't make a great deal of sense.
Is there any reason why the new turbo would cause a blockage in the exhaust? That's all I can think of why it's getting hot (not expelling the hot gases) and no power....
Doesn't really tie in with the smoke though.
Very weird.
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Post by dasnoboarder on Apr 30, 2007 21:17:22 GMT 11
I'm thinking the intake could be blocked (where the turbo intake pipe has a sharp 90 degree bend upwards)
Or actuator stuck open? So no exhaust gasses are spinning the turbine?
Hmmm....
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InVinceble
Isuzu Junior
....still says ISUZU on the motor!
Posts: 77
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Post by InVinceble on Apr 30, 2007 21:18:07 GMT 11
Das...
Does the exhaust impeller diameter matches the exhaust housing diameter? I'm guessing the impeller is smaller.
I'm "experimenting" with a similar hybrid turbo on my 3.1 bighorn, again thanks to Jarrad.
I've gone the same, with a 20R exhaust housing, but running the exhaust impeller from a Vi-95 (std. replacement). Inlet side uses all VF-10 parts.
I've got a 2.5" straight thro' exhaust from the turbo too.
....and guess what, not all is well under the bonnet either!
The old turbo would produce 12psi. This set-up tops out at 7psi.
Opening the boost controller only adds another 1psi !!
I'm not getting any temp. or smoke problems, although I have made a small adjustment to the fuel rate.
Bottom line is... I've lost 10-20kmh going up hill on SH1. Off-road I can't say I've noticed anything difference either way.
I'm going to reduce the size of the exhaust housing (to 15R - which matches the Vi-95 impeller) which I hope will spin the impeller faster.
I'll let you know.
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Post by dasnoboarder on Apr 30, 2007 21:42:14 GMT 11
Hmm ... Jarrad had this turbo on his 3.1 for a couple of years with no probs, so I'm guessing it's not that.
When does your turbo come on boost?
Cheers.
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InVinceble
Isuzu Junior
....still says ISUZU on the motor!
Posts: 77
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Post by InVinceble on Apr 30, 2007 22:29:10 GMT 11
2000-ish, not really looked at that, but definately maxs out around 3100-3300.
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Post by superturbocompound on Apr 30, 2007 22:54:43 GMT 11
by the look of the turbine housing it looks quite big,boost should be coming in later then 2000 cos the stock one comes it around that,further more the compressor housing plus the wheel is also bigger further increasing lag,how does the boost come in?does the neddle flutter?(surging)
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Post by dasnoboarder on May 1, 2007 7:45:06 GMT 11
The boost guage didnt move at all on the drive...
Basically it feels like it doesn't have a turbo... or worse
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Post by wizbru on May 1, 2007 8:20:27 GMT 11
I'm not claiming any knowledge of turbos but
I would have thought that if you double the size of the exhaust turbine etc then you would need a lot more gases to spin it. An engine can only produce a limited amount based on cc rating and a few other factors. We get greater boost pressures because the engine restricts the amount of gas(air) we can push in at any given moment. I would suggest that bigger is not away better - particularly on the exhaust side of things. That's my two cents worth anyway
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Post by dasnoboarder on May 1, 2007 8:51:58 GMT 11
Are the amount of exhaust gasses very different between the 2.8 and 3.1? It may be that it won't run very well because it's too big. But it should produce at least some boost right? If that does happen, I'll go down to a 15-R housing. I think theres some other problem Actuator stuck open? We were having trouble getting to the bottom front nut on the turbo flange, the dump pipe's butterfly valve system was in the way. I rang Jarrad, he said it didn't need it and it could be taken out. This is how we put the dump pipe back in:  The pipe sticking out, with a screw on the end is free to rotate. Would leaving the dump pipe like this be the cause? Could the butterfly in dump pipe be stuck closed, not letting gasses through, causing leaks and no boost? - |
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Post by geeves on May 1, 2007 8:57:22 GMT 11
Smoke and overheating suggest overfueling.
Where is your pipe from the top of the fuel pump connected. This tells the pump how much boost is there so how much fuel the motor will take.
Bigger turbo will create more power at high revs but this is at the expence of low end boost. Excelent for boy racers but hopless off road. If anything we should run smaller turbos with max boost just off idle ans running out not much over 3000.
Only other answer is a fancy twin turbo or supercharger/turbo setup to try and get the best of both worlds. Superturbo will tell you how much fun it is getting that to work right.
On my 2.8 bighorn usefull boost starts between 1500 and 1800 reaching 14psi just below 2000 through to just over 4000 at full throttle. I cant see any reason to look for more boost at this end of the rev range
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Post by dasnoboarder on May 1, 2007 9:05:42 GMT 11
I agree with the overfueling... The engine isnt getting any boost, maybe very little air.
The pipe from the top of the fuel pump is connected to the "2800 turbo" intake pipe, also has the boost gauge t'd into it, like you adviced a couple of months ago :-) .
I'll see what power is like with this size of exhaust when I get it running. If it is too laggy and cant produce enough boost, I will change to that 15-R housing. That is only a little bigger than the standard 2.8 (VI87), and is the same size the standard 3.1 uses (VI58).
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adam
Isuzu Junior
Posts: 103
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Post by adam on May 1, 2007 9:54:45 GMT 11
Leaky dump pipe would also hinder spooling wouldn't it ?
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Post by dasnoboarder on May 1, 2007 10:00:30 GMT 11
Leaky dump pipe would also hinder spooling wouldn't it ? Maybe .... but enough to keep boost at 0psi? |
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Post by geeves on May 1, 2007 11:02:18 GMT 11
That butterfly could be the problem although it should never close completly. Living in Auckland you can safly remove the butterfly completly. Its only for cold starts (define cold as skifield carpark nothing like Auckland cold)
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Post by dasnoboarder on May 1, 2007 12:49:06 GMT 11
How can you get the butterfly out completley?
That was the problem.
I have made it stay open, even though the method is pretty rugged. I had removed the bracket for it while I had the dump pipe out, and now it's in, can't reattatch it.
Went for a drive. There is a bit of exhaust leak from the dump pipe. And with no boost controller it gets up to 6psi at 3000rpm. Very slow really.
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adam
Isuzu Junior
Posts: 103
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Post by adam on May 1, 2007 14:06:48 GMT 11
The turbo will still spool a little but no where near as fast as it would otherwise.
It sounds like it's the butterfly though; fix that & fix the dump pipe leak and you should be sweet to go.
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